On Tuesday evening, 23rd June, 1998, Bankstown City Council was briefed on Bankstown Airport issues, as a result of concerns raised by the local communities about works being undertaken at the end of Runway 29C (the eastern end of Bankstown Airport's primary runway).

These works have been described as innocent "drainage" works by Airport managers, and evidence of runway extensions is denied by Airport Managers

The following is an unofficial transcript of the proceedings based on Council's tape recording, together with a rebuttal of some replies. The transcript includes um's, er's, ah's and grammatical errors because these reveals when the speakers were stressed or had difficulty choosing words.

It is left to the reader's judgement whether on some of these occassions, these pauses were needed to drag up an explanation that split hairs finely enough to escape accusations of falsehood...

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Introduction

K.Hill (Mayor): Mr Barry Thompson, the General Manager/Operations FAC, and Mr Howard Knox, the General Manager/Bankstown Airport have been invited to attend the Meeting to address Council in respect of the following issues, and the issues are outlined in the paper.

Gagging Public ?

Just before I ask them to address Council, I would, I want to acknowledge the fact that a number of, quite a number of residents sought to address Council and ask questions of bothe Mr Knox and Mr Thompson. In fact, four different applicants claimed to represent communities interested in this matter (interjection, five). The fact, - five now, oh, sorry - The facts are that section twelve of Council's code of meeting practice provide for members of the community to address Council where a matter is before Council for determination.

This is appropriate and recognises the democratic right of the public to express their views on the various applications that come before Council for approval. This matter, however, is not one which Council will be making a determination. It is simply a briefing requested by Council of the Management of Bankstown Airport and what their future plans are, how they consult with Council, and the community on addressing environmental issues.

It is not an opportunity to subject them to questioning as if this were an inquisition nor is it a forum for point-scoring. Councillors, as elected representatives will, of course, have the opportunity to ask questions, and seek clarification on any of the matters raised during the presentation.

I appreciate that many residents affected by airport operations - some good, some bad -, and rightfully deserve to be consulted and informed about the airport's future. This is what tonight is about and I encourage everyone to respect the rights of Mr Knox and Mr Thompson to be heard in silence and without interruption. And I thank everybody for their attendance. And I would now like to invite - who's first off the rank - Mr Thompson, Barry Thompson.

Ownership of Airport

Willingness to Consult

B.Thompson : Thank you, Mayor.

Can I first of all say that we are delighted to be with you tonight, to have this opportunity, ah, to talk about developments at the airport, and what's going on. And hopefully to, ah, lay to rest, at least in some people's minds anyway, some ghosts that seem to be haunting a number of people. And again to express our willingness, not only to come at any time to this Council, but can I express on, ah, our behalf, our willingness to talk to any groups who would like to talk to us in a sensible and controlled manner about what we're doing. So if anybody would like to talk to me about that on, we'd be delighted to make arrangements to talk with your groups as well (voice trailing off).

Signposts

Can I say, first of all, er, that the format that we are proposing tonight is that I'll do an introductory segment which talks about some of the issues which are facing us from an existence point of view right now.

Ah, Howard will then go on and talk about some of the, ah, ah, loc... why Bankstown is of significance, er, in the aviation area of Sydney, Some of its history, statistics, ah, and some of the programs which are currently being carried out there, and then finally I'll co, come back at the end and talk about some of the, er, consultation issues which people are concerned about.

Privatisation Changes

Let me begin by saying that this meeting occurs at a rather interesting time, ah, for the Federal Airports Corporation and Bankstown Airport because we are some eight days, ah, away from a change in our identity which will have some significant effects on how we do things in our relationships with Council and the community.

As people, I believe, are probably aware the Federal Airports Corporation was established in January 1998 - 1988 - sorry - ah, as a, ah, body, ah, responsible to the Federal Government for the operation at that time of 23 airports on a network basis around the whole of Australia.

I'm sure nobody could have missed the fact that over the last 18 months the Federal Government has been privatising the airports and, uh, have, would have already seen some 12 months ago now the, uh, privatisation of Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth and in the process of completing now the privatisation of 15 other airports all round Australia.

Meaning that of the 23 that we originally ran, uh, the Corporation is left with the operation of only Sydney, Bankstown, Hoxton Park, and Camden. And we will be picking up some responsibilities for Essendon which did not attract an, uh, a significant enough bidder, uh, at the, uh, second round of sales.

We had thought that might be the end of the matter, but in fact the Federal Government determined that they would also take this opportunity to, uh, alter the rules under which Sydney, Bankstown, Hoxton Park, and Camden are operating. So that from the 2nd July, 1998, I believe it is now, uh, we will in fact be, uh, acting under the same legislation as privatised airports and, uh, will be, uh, changing our structure entirely.

Could I say, uh, and if I hesitated over the date, uh, that we are trying to do in six weeks what took 18 months to do with the sales of the first airports, things are extremely confusing right at the moment, and if I say a date or a time or tell you something tonight, you may well read something different in the Financial Review tomorrow which our major source of information. If you find out, please tell us.

Sydney Airport Limited

The significant ev... changes as regards this particular airport are that the government has decided to establish a company called Sydney Airports (plural), er, er Corporation Limited which wills prime responsibility will be the running of Sydney airport.

Underneath that as standalone but organisationally as subsidiary company will be a company called Bankstown Airport Limited, a separate company called Hoxton Park Airport Limited and a third company called Camden Airport Limited - all of which will act in a sense as if they were subsidiaries of Sydney Airport. And then standing off by itself, uh, but under a management contract to Sydney Airport, will be Essendon Airport in Melbourne.

Bankstown Airport Limited

On that basis, some people have been questioning whether the timing of this event was correct because obviously if we are officers at the moment of the Federal Airports Corporation and did we have any authority to speak on behalf of the potential development of Bankstown Airport Limited. Let me tell you that the answer to that is "yes", because I wish to announce the confirmation of the fact that Howard Knox will be General Manager of Bankstown Airport Limited, and I this morning agreed a contract which will see me acting as the, uh, coordinator between Sydney Airport, uh, Corporation Limited and Bankstown Airport Limited for the operations policy and financial control of Bankstown Airport and the subsidiaries. So we are filling two roles tonight, but the, er, obviously on the 2nd July we'll move over to Bankstown Airport Limited.

The significant changes that occurs is that the Federal Airports Corporation Act with which we've all been familiar for the last ten years will no longer from the 2nd July apply and Bankstown Airport Limited will be required to comply with most but not all of the requirements of the Airports Act nineteen six, uh, 1996.

The particular things which will have, uh, effect for Council is , uh, that , uh, that Act as did the FAC Act does not, uh, make Council - give Council any responsibility for determining, uh, the im- its direct impact and control of developments on the - on Bankstown Airport.

And I know that lots of Councils around the country have expressed concern about that, that is a matter for Councils to take up with Federal Government if they wish to try to change it. But the Commonwealth Government determined that airports should still in a sense be, uh, Commonwealth property.

And whilst privatised or corporatised as we will be, we would still be under Commonwealth control and therefore the Commonwealth was unwilling, uh, to give up its, uh, property rights in regard to the control of developments on those airports.

Airport Building Controller

However, there is a significant change in the operation in that under the Federal Airports Corporation Act, we acted as Councils does in approving developments and so on. We would be the approving authority.

We will lose that authority on the 2nd of July and, as it will revert back to the Commonwealth Government, uh, through an individual or company, uh, called an Airport Building Controller. That person or company appointed by the Commonwealth Government will act as a Commonwealth agent and will be responsible for all the, approving all the development work that occurs on airports. Not just in the sense of buildings, but also - specifically in the Act - runways and taxiways which control is relevant to our discussions later on tonight.

Environment Control Officer

There is a third, an- an- another change as well in that environmental matters on which were also the approving agent and controlling agent, uh, will now be designated to another Commonwealth agent called the Environment Control Officer who will be responsible for ensuring that the airport meets all the environmental controls specified in the Commonwealth legislation, or where Commonwealth legislation doesn't apply, State legislation, uh, rather than it relying on us.

Noise Excluded

However, I should point out, uh, that, uh, in this sense environmental control does not include, uh, aspects of aircraft noise that matter other, uh, than for ground running of aircraft engines. Uh, environmental noise from aircraft operating point of view, uh, is the province of Airservices Australia and not of airport management. Although it's quite understandable to us why people complain about the noise the airport causes and then wonder why we don't in fact take the complaints, but the Commonwealth Government some time ago reverted those authorities to Airservices Australia.

Ministers Responsible

I think that, uh, the other thing that we should need to point out, uh, under this new, uh, Act is that the Commonwealth Government has reserved to itself - to the Minister in fact in most cases, and sometimes to the Airport Building Control Officer - the right to, uh, make final decisions, uh, on major airport development. And major airport development is defined in the Act in several ways but the one I think perhaps worth, uh, mentioning tonight are three particular aspects of it: that major airport development is defined as extensions of runway, without saying how far they have to extend, and extension of passenger terminals where that extension will bring about an increase in passenger terminal capacity of 10 per cent or more, and any works on which expenditure is greater than $10 million.

And in each of those cases, the Minister in offering his approval will note that we are required to provide information on the effect of noise management, environmental impacts and proof of community consultation in those particular areas.

So I think that's perhaps sets the scene for the change in the Act under which we're going to operate. What I think we might do now, uh, with your approval, uh, Mr Mayor, is ask my colleague Mr Knox if he would go through some of the other aspects of the current operation of the Airport, and some of the development plans. We will then talk about how we'd go about consulting, given the new rules that I've just outlined to you, and then perhaps ask for questions towards the end of that, if that's acceptable.

K Hill: Thank You.

B Thompson: Uh I'll go up, er, may I go up to the overhead projector, and Howard can talk from here ?

K.Hill: Okay

H. Knox: Just come in that, that's first. Sorry.

B. Thompson: If I put the wrong one up, just tell me.

H. Knox: (inaudible)

K Hill: Some of the people in the gallery down this end may not be able to see the - if you'd like to move that way a bit, you may then be able to see the screen.

Operations and Current Developments

Where's the Residents ?

H. Knox: Mr Mayor, Councillors, er, the first thing I consider I should do is just give you an overview of how Bankstown fits in the Sydney Basin, into the Sydney Basin. This is what they call a VCT chart [displays it on OHP]. And, if I can get the thing, [points with laser pointer] that's Sydney Airport, that's Bankstown Airport just there, Camden Airport just there, er, Camden Air - Hoxton Park just there. The Badgerys Creek site is just there.

interjection: Where's Holsworthy ?

H. Knox : Holsworthy's down here somewhere. Down here somewhere.

Now, er, Bankstown has, technically, a three nautical mile radius around it. But it's got little bits of squares. And that's the control zone for Bankstown.

Barry, go to the next slide, if you wouldn't mind, and it'll shows you this in greater details how it fits in. And up that way, okay.

Again, you see Bankstown just there. Here's the zone around. These are the light aircraft lanes that feed into Bankstown from Prospect and out here from 2RN where the aircraft come in and out of Bankstown. And that's the, er, the control zone. And that control zone goes from 0 to 1500 feet. 0 to 1500 feet that's the Bankstown control zone height.

Er, aircraft above that, er, are in Sydney Air Traffic control responsibility. They are not in Bankstown. So if you see a large aircraft flying over the top of Bankstown, it is not in any way associated with Bankstown Airport. It's generally associated with - it's going into Sydney Airport.

I might add that, uh, that is one of the busiest pieces of airspaces in the Southern Hemisphere and, uh, when you when you combine Hoxton Park and Camden and put it all together it runs into about the seventh busiest piece of airspace in the world.

Always that way...

Just to give you some background of the, er, airport, this is a photograph of Bankstown Airport taken in 1946 from Black Charlie's Hill. If you look down you can see the buildings there, and you notice that it was green grass and, er, some scrub. That's Allingham Street.

interjection: (inaudible)

Knox: Eh, say that... ?

It's been there a long time. The airport actually started in, um, 1941. forty one. And, er, just as a bit of background, it was actually considered as an airport site for an international airport in 1929.

(OHP change slide)

This is Bankstown Airport as it stands today. It is, er, an interesting complex in that we have two contra-rotating circuits. And er, if I can just get it out here, we go one circuit this way (points), another circuit that way, back round there. With a three runway complex in the 11/29 direction.

Just 3000 jobs ?

The airport employs 3000 employees. It generates a wage bill of approximately $2.5 million dollars a week. It earns considerable overseas, um, funds in the, um, export of, um, aircraft component parts and flying training. There is 26 flying training organisations on Bankstown Airport.

Busiest Airport in Southern Hemisphere

To give you some idea of the, the er, the amount of aircraft movements, er, that happen out there, as I said, it's one of the busiest pieces of airspace in the world. The busiest year we've ever had was in 1989 with 433,000. I've just rounded them off, it could have been 433,123, but we've rounded them off to the nearest 1000. And that was the busiest year.

And it fluctuates up and down. We're currently running at around 400,000 this year with the slight downturn in the flying training due to the, er, er, economic crisis in, er, Asia.

So it is extremely busy. Camden, Hoxton Park are the same. And they fluctuate up and down, up and down, a little bit, um, according to th economic, um, climate of the times. Especially with flying training.

Flying training makes up about 50 per cent of the aircraft movements. Next one Barry.

Now, um, I mentioned, how do the aeroplanes get in and out of the place, er. Barry have we got the orange, we can tune that thing, take the blue out of it. Might. You know how you've got the dial-on thing that takes the blue out

B. Thompson (inaudible) It's the screen now

H Knox : This is a diagrammatic, er, representation of how the aircraft, er, come in and out of Bankstown when we are using the 29 runway complex. And it shows you how the helicopters fit in, into the system. Down here (points). How the arriving and departing aeroplanes come in and depart, and they miss one another. It's all designed so that we don't have mid-air collisions. And the circuit training on the Southern side.

If the wind blows in the other direction, and we use the 11 direction, the procedures change. And this information is relayed to the pilot by what we call the ATIS, the Automatic Terminal Information Service. And the pilot dials up a frequency, and he hears and acknowledges to the tower that he has received the information - what direction and what operational restrictions are operating at the airport and follows those procedures to get in and out of Bankstown safely.

Tracks Don't Exist

Barry Thompson (interrupts H Knox): People often talk about the fact of what is the track that the aircraft follows. The thing that comes out of this drawing that's not clear if you're too far away to see it - is that in fact there is no track on the ground that the aircraft has to follow at all.

The tracks are determined by being at a particular height and then doing something. So on this example, the aircraft can takeoff then at 500 feet at that point, it starts to turn, continues to climb until it's at 1000 feet at that point. Continue at 1000 feet downwind until its gets to the right angle where it turns to make the runway. As it turns and starts to descend at 500 feet again it turns and lines up with the runway.

Quite clearly that will change depending - where that is on the ground will change depending on a number of things. The first one of course is the aircraft's performance. Those aircraft that arrive light will have better performance and will be able to do that - a smaller circle, if you like. Those which are either heavy or don't climb so well will find that there is a track on the ground somewhat right of there . So that I think that's an important thing to know because all too often we find difficulties with people trying to understand and saying why don't you move that aircraft over some... it flies along this road, or along the railway line or something.

Well, that's not what in fact determine where the aircraft goes. What determines is the height as it makes these turns. And those particular decisions are ones made by the international civil aviation organisation. And those are the type of standards that are setup on a world wide basis.

The variation could be the ???weight of ??? aircraft. Another variation could be the wind of course. If there is no wind, it will take longer to climb, er, but, er, to 500 feet. But it will, when you're climbing into the wind, the aircraft climbs higher at that particular point. So the tracks are quite variable and we can't -er- it's not possible to insist that people make turns and have circuits following particular roads or the golf course or -ah- or something like that.

H. Knox: Right we'll go to the next one Barry.

Drain

And I think this is -er- what might have -er- caused some concern to people. But when it -(stumbles) -it- is explained - it's -er - that the drainage work that we're doing at the eastern end of Bankstown airport. Er - I've been quite intrigued to see -er- the front page newspaper stories that we're extending runways when we're actually extending a drain and relocating a drain.

The, um, . The main, um, drain that runs down from Condell Park across Bankstown Airport, er, no this one Barry, this one, this one here - that one there - that one there - yeah - the one that goes underneath the runway.

Er that drain, er, is a double drain it takes, er, water from the Northern part of Bankstown Airport but most of the water from Condell Park and, er, Bass Hill.

And it feeds down through the airport. And er, er, - what is happening is that when we get the water from, ah, ah, over here at, er, Condell Park and it feeds in here (pointing) it - it's causing a swirling action and we flood this part of the airport wh- when we have large downpours. And that causes us some disruption.

RESA - Runway End Safety Area

The other s- safety problem we have is that the drain I- just there (points) - is 4 meters deep and 9 meters wide and it's 15 meters from the end of the runway. It is a safety hazard.

If an aircraft runs over and goes into the drain, even though it's outside the operational area and we know that that safety hazard is there, and we've done nothing about it, we could be held liable. So we have to fill the drain in.

Golf Range Jobs Lost

Now when we decided t- to carry out this work, we also had to divert the drain down here th- that was causing the flooding problem. And that necessitated, er, terminating the golf driving range. Now, um, Ray Harrison has been aware of that for some ten odd years cause I've discussed that with Ray many times, er, about the diversion of the drain through the place. But er, it's er, something that people started to, er, believe that we were actually extending Bankstown Airports runways.

That is not correct. We have no funding and no approval to extend the runways. (long pause)

The drain, er, I might add, er, er, just to extend it across the thing is costing $2.1 million. (pause).

Cowboy Pilots to Overshoot Runways

Now - it - when we get, er, um, people visiting this city, er, during the Olympics, we will have a lot of overseas pilots who will come here and, er, I would not like to see some of them just make, er, slight overshoot problem and end up in the drain. er, cause it could be, er, quite embarrassing and, er, um, very, um, (Barry prompts, costly) - costly.

Now, mentioning the Olympics, er, we will have a lot of executive aeroplanes come here. They come to Bankstown already. This is a G IV, um, jet, um, (points) it comes into Bankstown on average 2 to 3 times a week now, er, and Coca Cola for example will be eight of those, to Bankstown during the Olympics. Eight of them. And they were th-

Regionals Here Already

There has been, er, people say to us that, er, you're going to bring commuter aircraft to Bankstown. Commuter aircraft already come to Bankstown. If you look at that you can see Hazelton's commuter aircraft there. It comes into Bankstown occassionally, and the same with the, er, Dash-8 from Eastern Airlines. They actually come over and train.

They also drop passengers off. It happens now. There's no change.

Unknown: what sort of aircraft is that

H. Knox: That's a Dash-8. A Dash-8.

B.Thompson: It's a 36 seater commuter aircraft.

H. Knox: commuter aircraft.

B. Thompson: Although I noticed one newspaper described it as having performance of 100 seats. It's actually 36.

Apron (Hard Stand)

H. Knox: Mmm (agrees).

On- On the Olympic, er, side of things we, we are actually building some hard stand at the airport at the moment to park these aircraft after visiting, um, um, the United States, er, couple of years back, and seeing what happened there, er, the general aviation, er, side of Atlanta was quite interesting.

And we will be having discussions with, er, SOCOG and, er, with Airservices Australia and, er, the operators. Some of the things they did in Atlanta was, the-, to handle the traffic, they curtailed flying training for a while. Now that will have economic impact on the tenants at Bankstown and it needs to be discussed and worked out which way we will go. We're not quite sure just yet, but those things will be discussed.

The, um, amount of aircraft that will come there will be considerable. But it will be of benefit to Bankstown. There will be high profile executives coming through the place and, er, those executives, er, have considerable economic influence in decisions. And if they see the benefits of what the airport brings to the community, it will be advantage to Bankstown.

Service Station

Ummm, On the commercial side of Bankstown Airport, um, we are slowly but surely developing the south-west corner. Now I've been asked many times, "oh, when do you consult about this". I can tell you that we have been consulting with, um, Council with, um, er, the industry and, er, people for over ten years about the south west corner development.

Ah, it's taken tremendous amount of negotiation with the Roads and Traffic Authority, um, National Parks and, er, to get that development to the stage where we're just about to enter into negotiations with various, er, er companies to use the facility down there.

Umm. Other than that, I think it's up to you Barry on consultation.

Tenants Recommended by Council ?

B. Thompson: Perhaps just on... while we're still on commercial development, can I express on behalf of the Corporation the thanks to Bankstown Council who've been very helpful in that because we have a number of tenants on Bankstown Airport who were recommended to go there by Bankstown Council. And we'd like very much to thank the Council for the- they're, er, thought that obviously met a need in the community but also helped us, er, er with the operation of the airport. So we appreciate that.

Consultation Committee

Finally, on consultation, er, can I say that this is obviously an issue that we understand people have concern about. Prior to the establishment of the Federal Airports Corporation, the, er, Minister for Aviation, as he was then, Peter Morris, er, er est- asked, asked, requested, ordered, er, Airports to establish bodies called Consultation Committees.

He established some very strict rules as to how people were to be, um, er, nominated to that particular committee. And those committees started operation, I think, around 1984 or thereabouts. Remember the Corporation started in 1988.

Whilst the FAC Act makes some general, er, discussion points about consultation, it does not lay down how specifically that consultation ought to occur. Very early in its life the Managing Director then Mr Bill Swindler (???) determined that the corporation would, er, pick up and run with exactly the process described by Mr Morris some years earlier. And that process has continued, er, until this day. In fact, yesterday we had another meeting of that Consultative Committee.

Basically representation on that committee is er, in the case of Bankstown, er, a representative of Bankstown Airport [his mistake] which from time to time has been the Mayor or a councillor or a staff member of the council, er, someone from Liverpool Council on the same basis, uh, someone from the aviation industry on the airport, someone from Airservices Australia - the people responsible for aircraft movements on the airport - er, representatives of the state planning authority, and, er, in particular, in regard to community consultation, er, Mr Morris made it clear that he believed that ought to be effective through Councils but just in case there was a need for any other, er, means of getting that consultation out that we also ought to include a representative of one community body, er, and some conditions were laid down as to how that community body should be selected and, er, we've had, er, the benefit of the representatives of a number of people -ah- on Bankstown Council, er, representing the body particular George River er, Georges Hall Progress Association, er, who also regularly attend that meeting.

Public Gallery : Is this stacked by pilots ?

B.Thompson: No, it was not, the er...

K. Hill: Please the...

B.Thompson : Sorry. Thank you, Mr Mayor. er, I've already described the, er, for the benefits of members, er, described the representation. There were no pilots on it, with the exception of the representative of the general aviation association, who represented tenants and, er, operators on the airport.

The, uh, er, Federal Airports Corporation, as I said, are determined to continue that activity, and that, er, body meets, by and large, four times a year, but sometimes finds it a little difficult occassionally to get, er, er, um, quorum to meet. But by and large, we try to meet four times a year.

It was intended to be a two way organisation in which not only did the airport say what it was doing, but we also receive from, er, the community representatives and others, indications of things they were doing that might have some impact on the airport.

It's tended to be a one way exercise where the airport tells what it was doing at the particular time.

Confused by New Act

Under the new act, the, er, Bankstown Airport Limited will have different requirements for consultation, and it is not yet clear, er, from that Act, and the regulations, which way those consultations will go. And the only thing I can say right at the moment, is to give an undertaking to Council, er, that, er, the,until such time as we are told differently, we will continue with what we are doing now. But that er, if other means can be found of making that more effective under the new Act, we'll be delighted to enter into discussions with Council, in particular, about how we can improve consultation, and development of what's going on on the airport.

Thank you Mr Mayor.

K. Hill : Thank you very much, er, councillors, questions ? Council Stromborg.

I. Stromborg : Can I've a mike ?

Challenge to Consult

Um, Barry, Um, you've been, FAC's been heavily criticized over the years for lack of consultation and probably, I think it's fair to say that there is some justification. This Sunday, I understand, Bankstown Airport Community and Environment Forum is holding a public forum at Georges Hall public school at 2 pm.

Um, I've been asked to publicly extend, um, an invitation to you and any other, um, organisation involved with Bankstown Airport to attend, if you possibly could. So, I don't expect an answer right now, but certainly, I'm sure that one of the representatives might ring Howard in the next day or so to organise something.

B.Thompson: Thank you for... If you get the invitation to us formally, we'll see if we can respond. As I've already indicated, we have rather a significant workload problem (Howard interjects, yeah) We'll do our best to (interjection: "okay").

Public Gallery:...you've communicated we would ??? "we'll be delighted to talk to...

K.Hill : Sir, look, the gallery, the gallery will remain quiet. Thank you very much. Allow the Councillors to ask the questions. I know many of you have given the Councillors questions,

I Stromborg: And Mr Mayor, I do, um, . This, um, Airport and Community Environment Forum have given me a list of questions, and their not all that long, so, if you just bear with me and I'll just go through them.

Um, and I'll just read out the ones I feel are a little bit more important than others.

Denials of Extensions

Um, the first one is, have, has, there been any extensions to the length of any runway, um, at Bankstown Airport, since 1996 to the present time, and when did such extensions begin and when did they finish ?

B.Thompson: No .

I Stromborg: What further extensions are proposed to runways at the airport ?

B.Thompson : None .

I. Stromborg: None. Okay.

Why wasn't an Environmental Impact Study undertaken for the extensions to runway 11C/29C and 18/36 ?

H. Knox: They haven't been extended .

B. Thompson: They haven't been extended . That's the...

I. Stromborg: Okay, I'm just reading the questions

B.Thompson: Yeah, I know, but they don't make any sense, there's been no extensions so we obviously wouldn't do it.

Critical Aeroplane

I. Stromborg: What is the largest type of aircraft that can currently be accomodated at Bankstown Airport, example, Dash-8, Sabre 340s, Falcon 50, uh, BA, uh, British Airways, um, Corporation, 146 ?

H. Knox: Aircraft up to 50 ton. Aircraft up to 50 ton., uh, which is like a 146 but, we've had, er, Hercules in at 63 ton.

I. Stromborg: I guess this question is trying to ask is, is it envisaged that, what type of aircraft, er, the upper limit aircraft, envisaged for the foreseeable future, in terms of size.

B.Thompon : Uh, it's a complex question to answer. On a very infrequent basis you can get quite heavy aircraft in.

I.Stromborg : Mmm

B.Thompson: If you, going, planning on them coming in regularly, then obviously it's a lower weight because the the pavements are effected by total stress which is a combination of weight, tyre pressures and frequency of use.

But the airport would be basically be able to handle at the moment virtually unlimited operations by aircraft up to 20,000 kilos which is roughly, Dash-8.

Interjection (Knox?): Size.

International Operations

I.Stromborg : Right. OK Thank You. And this one's under heading, proposals for the future. Um, are there proposals for greater provision for helicopters, um, in brackets, heliports, new and enlarged terminals, custom facilities, etc.,.

B.Thompson : Uh, answer again is NO. Er. Custom facilities implies that the airport somehow will become international and I ??? ever see that happening. It just isn't capable of handling aircraft that are capable of international operation. So that won't be the case.

Helicopters

In the case of heli, heliports, uh, we already have I think it's five spots on which helicopters to land and they're not over utilized at the moment, so I can't see why we'd be changing that.

Olympic Aircraft Plans

I.Stromborg : Mmm Hmm. Ah.

What type of aircraft during the Olympics are proposed to be accomodated at Bankstown Airport, er, examples, those ones I mentioned before and in particular the, er, the concern about the British Aerospace 146

B.Thompson : The airport, as Howard indicated, can now - handles aircraft up to G IV size, which is a quite large corporate aircraft, similar to the type that Howard mentioned from Coca-Cola. Er, those sorts of aircraft we expect to operate in there reasonably frequently duing the Olympics game, as Howard indicated there are potentially 8 coming out from Atlanta from Coca-Cola that we know of.

In regard to 146's, there's been no decision made at all that we're aware of as to what happens - is to happen with those sorts of aircraft which currently operate into Sydney Airport.

Instrument Landing Upgrade

I.Stromborg : Uh, Er, one here I don't really understand, but I'll ask it. Will the FAC or SAC be installing instrument system ?

B.Thompson : Oh, well, we don't do that anyway, that's Airservices Australia. But to the best of our knowledge, nobody is planning to er, uh, add anything to the instrument landing systems at Bankstown Airport.

Regional Aircraft

I.Stromborg : And the question here I think probably everybody in our particular area would want answered is: "Is Bankstown Airport taking in more regional and intrastate aircraft in order to allow Kingsford Smith Airport to accommodate a grand- greater amount of, I guess, international aircraft"?

B.Thompson : The question... are we doing it now ? Does the question imply, are we doing it now ?

I.Stromborg : Well.. (B.Thompson talks over..)

B.Thompson : Because if that's the question, then no we're not

H.Knox : Not

I.Stromborg : I guess, in the future.

B.Thompson : In the future we don't know. We are well aware, as I guess everbody in this hall is, of a number of inquiries going on into the future of Sydney Airport. I know Mr Fahey has an inquiry running looking at commuters, I think the NSW government has one running into the future of commuters. They're decisions that'll be made at a political level that, uh, we're not involved in - (softly) at this stage.

Olympic Disguise

I.Stromborg : And just finally for the minute, I might have, there might be other councillors, but this is probably more a statement than a question.

The major concern of the Bankstown Airport Community and Environment Forum relates to the lack of proper community consultation in relation to airport expansion. Such expansion has been suggested since the late 1970s and early 80's. The 82 Masterplan shows this. Um, it is a worry that any expansion which has been or will be undertaken has been under the guise of the temporary nature of the Olympic role for Bankstown Airport.

However in reality it can be seen as a permanent expansion that has been planned and then upgraded without community consultation again over the last two decades.

B.Thompson : Aha, pretty good statement. I'm not too sure what the question is.

I.Stromborg interjects: Yeah

B.Thompson: But if the implication is that we don't consult on expansion, again we should point out as we've said consistently tonight, there has been no expansion of the airport at all. There have been some changes in the promulgated distances of runways that already existed, but there's been no actual expansion in the runways or anything at all. I c- can't go past that.

I.Stromborg : Right.Ah, Mr Mayor, I've got a couple others, but I'll let somebody else go...

K.Hill : Any further questions ? Council Lee.

G. Lee : Thanks, Mr Mayor. Um.

BAL Ownership

In relation to the future operations of the airport, there's obviously a lot, a great deal of interest in the community about this. Um. Having had meetings when I was the Mayor with Howard and community representatives and the local Federal MP, uh, Mr Hatton, about a couple of problems that were, uh, seen by the community and also be us in relation to helicopters and things like that. Um. The history of the airport's obviously been talked about tonight. The question I'd like to talk about considering all the changes that you've got, that's happening there, legislatively and otherwise. Firstly is, who will own, um, this company Bankstown Airport Limited, okay ?

B.Thompson : Bankstown Airport Limited will be a subsidiary company of Sydney Airports Corporation Limited which is 100 per cent owned government business enterprise. It's the Federal Government if you trace it back.

Post Privatisation Plans

G.Lee : And you're unaware of, I'm just trying to catch up on exactly what you said, you're unaware, up until once you become a corporation on July the 8th, I think you said

B.Thompson interrupts: 2nd.

G.Lee: July 2nd, after that, er, what government future plans are (there) for that private corporation ?

B.Thompson : No, we have no information at all. I mean, personal opinion, I believe it's being set up for privatisation but when that is, and under what terms and conditions, I wouldn't know. It's just my own personal guess.

G.Lee : Okay. Do you think it will be changed as a result of any Cabinet decision in relation to Sydney's Second International Airport decision ?

B.Thompson : I don't believe so. I think that's an impact on Sydney Airport. I don't believe... It's hard to say, uh, it depends on what they decide, I suppose, uh,...

G.Lee : Okay.

B.Thompson . So then you get into speculation about will they decide to have a second site, if they do what will they develop it to carry, how long will that take to do, can you handle the capacity demand in the region in the meantime, (G.Lee :, ah,a), ah, short and long term changes that might need to be made to adjust to the construction programs and so on. But this stage it's all speculation, we have nothing that could give us any indication on any significant change, and we're not, certainly not planning on having ch- significant changes to the type of aircraft operating at Bankstown Airport.

Good Neighbour's Land Use

G.Lee : Okay. The third question I have is relation to a question I raised at the Senate Committee into privatisation in Canberra. And that was in relation to the issue of land use and, um, we've had some extensive debate about that in this chamber going back into the 80's before I was on Council. But in relation to a number of issues back then. But, um, of particular recent history, um, something that has been a little bit alarming - and I think it's been canvassed widely in the press by most councillors here - was, um, two things.

There used to be a great deal of cooperation in relation to the land use that was being proposed on the site. And obviously not just meeting the building codes of Australia requirements. That's the first question: will you do more than just require that and not just eh like passe notify Council "this is the building we're building on the site"

Alcohol at Service Station

And secondly the land use, the use of those new buildings - I'm not saying next year for the Olympics or whatever, I'm saying into the long term - and I have a specific eh we've had, we've had a specific debate in the chamber. Mr Mayor, I'm sorry I'm taking so long for the question. But it's in relation to the service station site. And the sale of alcohol and things from a, um, crown land proposal. And that's a debate that's been raging in NSW and parliament, and, eh, through the Liquor Association etc.,. with the government. And yet, here we have in isolation and also at Hoxton Park, two sites, on Crown Land, that do have that. And, er, this Council's expressed a view, and also, I did in the Senate, representing the Council in relation to...

K.Hill : Council Lee, I'd like you to ask the question please.

G.Lee : other land use patterns. So what we want to know, can you give us some sort of guarantees in future, that those types of things will not just have a cursory, um, if you like, er, representation to the Council, in relation to future land use and building projects. More than that.

B.Thompson : Okay. Uh. Firstly, can I say that I've already indicated that there are some changes being brought about under the new Airports Act., uh, which require certain types of development, I specifically mention runways, terminals, and $10 million. But included in that are other development types as well, ah, which will, ah, come under either Ministerial approval or approval of the Airport Building Control and do require community consultation. And I indicated that earlier in the day. So when, whilst it's a little early for us to say exactly how we think that's going to work, it's clearly indicative that there needs to be some consultation on that.

G.Lee : A hmm.

B.Thompson : However, I would need to say that I don't believe in the case of the service station - I don't want to get into too much argument about it - but in that whole south-west corner, I believe this Council ought to have been fairly well aware of it, because it seems to me that going back to about 1994 or thereabouts with various Council representatives, ah, we've made it very clear what our intentions were for that particular area of the airport. And in fact, uh, have some records of Council understanding and appreciation of what we were doing down there.

G.Lee : Mmm.

K.Hill : Any further questions ? Council Parker.

Parker Statement

M.Parker: Ah yes, Mr Mayor.

I'd just like to, um, congratulate, um, Barry and, er, Howard for the, for the running of the your Airport. Since I've been here in Bankstown, it's been one of our greatest assets in Bankstown, that airport. It employs large number of people. It generates a huge amount of income to our community. It's been there a long time before the eh residents moved in around the area. And of course at the moment we've got a few of the eh local would-be politicians jumping out of the woodwork, stirring up the residents again. I don't know what the residents expect to get. But it's not going to change. And I'd just like to make it clear that my support for the airport, I think it's a great asset and what you're doing down in that corner with a, er, with that museum, I think will be a great asset to Bankstown in the future as well.

But I think, that I'd like to, er, let the public know that I'm in total support of that airport. The operations that it's had happen and the operations in the future. Because it is a great asset to our community, and it's about time people got up, stood up and said how it is rather than..

Interjector : Statement...

K.Hill : Councillor Parker. We're only taking questions.

M.Parker : I'm sorry Mr Mayor. That is a statement. Thank You.

(laughter).

K.Hill : Any further questions ? Councillor Westwood.

Community Focus

H.Westwood : Um, Mr Mayor. Perhaps just to follow on from the comments that, um, Councillor Parker was making about this being, um, an asset that is of value to the community. I think that that's probably true, but I think it's also about the community, um, having ownership of it and feeling as though - you know - that the airport sees itself as being part of the Bankstown Community.

And I think, they probably do, but I think that sometimes there isn't as much consultation that the community would want and would hope that there is. And perhaps that does lead people to believe that there are things going on at the airport that indeed are not. But because they're not getting the information, they're not aware of that.

Um, and I understand that you do have a community consultative committee, and I understand that rules that you are working under in the past, but, um, I know they're not set by you, and perhaps that something we need to take up with the appropriate minister, and the appropriate department. Um

Residents Rep

But if you look at the makeup of that committee, it's, um, you can understand why people do feel that there isn't real community representation on there. Um. I accept one member from Georges Hall is good, but I think that there are other groups in the community who may have, who may bring other, ah, sources of information and other ideas and other concerns that aren't really represented amongst this group of people.

So, um, perhaps my question is about what we can do to to, ah, have input into the makeup of the next committee. Could we suggest to you, and I, I perhaps under the new corporation you're - you're allowed, I don't know whether General Manager has more authority, you can act more independently, or perhaps even you can advise your Minister or the Sydney Airports Company about, ah, the makeup of that committee and how there perhaps are other groups that would like to have involvement.

I know that Waste Service NSW, the Chullora recycling park does have reps from a number of organisations, Council is represented, so, so is a member of the Bushland Society, ah, and residents as well. (muffled laugh) Ah, I think it is something we have to take on board.

The community are telling us that they feel that the perception is there isn't community consultation. You're telling us that the mechanism is this consultative committee, so maybe we can ensure that the makeup of that community is a real mechanism for community exchange of information, both from the community to you, and from the airport to the community.

And I think that if you could take that on board, and perhaps, as I say, if there is something that we can do that could have influence over that, um, I'd be really pleased to here your advice on that.

B.Thompson : Oh thank you very much for, for the statement. (laughed) Eh, the, ah, issue as to how the consultation might, ah, continue in the future is a very real one for us. We are certainly hoping for more flexibility in how we can handle that. We will take very seriously the comment that you've been made, made, and we will see if there is anything that can be done. But I don't know what will come out of it yet. Er. We'll certainly take it on board. Thank You.

K.Hill : Right, further question ? Councillor Taylor.

C.Taylor : Yes Mr Mayor.

Along the same lines as what Councillor Westwood was referring to. Er. You're saying that, er, when you become a corporation, approvals are going to go through the Airport Building Controller, environmental issues through the environment control officer. But you also said that you don't really know how they're going to be handling those er, developments or proposals or whatever is proposed for the airport.

If you don't know what the ground rules are going to be, does that mean they've not been set, and if they haven't been set, what opportunity is there for Council to talk to whoever is going to set the ground rules, to let them know how we feel about, er, the way things have been handled previously and how we would like to see them handled in the future.

So that perhaps the ground rules could be set prior to any consultative committee so that we've got the sort of setup that we would like to see, so that we have some input into that process.

B.Thompson : Thank You. Er. The rules are outlined in the Airports Act, 1996. What we don't know is what parts of those rules apply to Bankstown Airport specifically. There are two classes of airport: one's called core regulated airport, to which every part of the regulations apply. Bankstown is a non-core regulated airport, and the department have yet to lay down in full detail for us, which of the particular components of, er, the system will apply to Bankstown and which will not.

What is clear is that the people and appointed companies or individuals will be acting as Commonwealth agents, using Commonwealth authority and, er, maintaining a full Commonwealth interest in what's going on. Er. The only way that you could influence that is not through us at all, I'm afraid, but you'd have to find yourself talking to either Mr Fahey as Minister for Finance to whom we will now report, not to the Minister for Transport, Mr Vaille, but you could try both of those and see if you can do anything. Er

However, I would just advise you that in the privatisation process, er, the same discussion was held by a number of local councils who were seeking to have greater influence and to that stage anyway they were unsuccessful. It might be worthwhile contacting some of your Council colleagues who made those approaches to see why they feel they didn't succeed, and if you learn from that it might help you to achieve something. But you need to talk to either Mr Vaille or Mr Fahey.

C.Taylor : Okay.

What Tennant Recommendations ?

Also, I'd like to pick up on one of the comments you made in your, er, Barry in your presentation. As you said that, um, Council had referred a number of businesses to the airport. Now, I'm not aware of any policy of Council, and I'm not cert- certainly aware of any businesses that we as specifically have referred to the airport for location there. Certainly seems to be the other way, we don't seem to know what's going on there until it suddenly appears on there. That's the way it appears to me anyway. So could you perhaps tell us, which businesses that you were referring to.

 

B.Thompson : Well, two come to mind instantly. One is Bankstown Grammar School, and which- who were looking to move from the highway at Yagoona, and, er, spoke to Council and Council rep-, or Councillors, or someone from Council anyway suggested they come down and talk to us and they're now one of our biggest tenants on the airport.

If I can move the the other extreme, the other rather interesting one, is Kathy's Dancing School - er - where she was unable to obtain, er, regular, er, use of Council Halls because of policies that said, as I understand it, that you couldn't block, er, book a hall for particular day for a whole year because that might cause problems with other people. And again, it was suggested to her that she come down and talk to us, and her business now operates off the airport. There are two I can think of instantly.

K.Hill : Any further questions.

Gallery: Mr. Mayor...

K.Hill : Councillor... sorry. No. Look, I'm sorry, the gallery is not... I've already made a statement on that. Councillor Stromborg.

Unknown: ...not a public meeting.

Gallery: I have a CASA letter here, which conflicts directly with...

K.Hill : Well, look,

Gallery: ...what we've been told.

K.Hill : You'll have to take it up with the Federal Member.

Gallery: You can read it in the newspaper.

K.Hill : You can do that too.

(other muffled interjections)

K.Hill : Councillor Stromborg...

Rejig of Training Circuits

I.Stromborg : Um, Mr. Mayor, one last question. Um, a couple of months ago, Howard, um, Darryl Melham and myself, and a few community reps met in your - your office there and we spoke about quite a number of things. And during the course of that meeting, um, attention turned to the south side of the airport, um, and the training circuit.

And something that been sort of, um, not bothering me, but sort of been of interest to me for quite a while now, why the southern training circuit couldn't be sort of jigged around a little bit so that the aircraft actually fly over the M5, blue gum farm and Kelso Park and avoid the Milperra residential area.

Now, all along, by yourself and other people, I've been told, "no, it's sort of scripted by international flying standards" and one thing and another. But in attendance at that meeting was a chap named John Lyon, who's the president of your Chamber of Commerce. And his words still ring in my ears, when I asked him about it and he turned to you and said "we could do something over there", to perhaps encourage the pilots to take their aircraft and g- travel through that corridor near Deepwater Motor Boat Club and Blue Gum farm and all that. So therefore avoiding some 5,000 houses or so in the Milperra Residential area.

Now, I don't expect to g- you to give me an answer tonight, and, and I know that you don't have control over flying operations. But I just want to foreshadow that in the next month or so, once you get settled down in your, in your new businesses and all that, I in- intend to sort of, um, um, take this further with you and maybe call a meeting of all the players within that just to see if we can give some relief to one section of Bankstown which, uh, is - there's been an indication to me - is achievable.

B.Thompson : (exhales)

H.Knox : (muffled) it's a statement

B.Thompson : (muffled) just leave it

K.Hill : Any further questions ? No further questions ? Thank you very much for you coming along to address the Council tonight.